$456M for 3.1 miles of subway (Re: Metro Blue Line extension)

[The Robinsons]

$456 million for a 3.1 mile mostly underground (cut and cover)
Metro line covered by (I believe) a trail. I would like to hear
what Purple line people (i.e. Metrorail opponents, as well as
trail proponents who also oppose Metrorail as an alternative)
have to say about this!!

Question for Scott: why do you assume the pathway to Morgan Boulevard is
"mostly for use on game days"? The entire surrounding area is currently
being redeveloped in conjunction with the station, being entirely
undeveloped woodland in 1995. Do you not believe the station should have
ANY pedestian access to the main street it passes right under at the
east end of the platform? The entire surrounding area was undeveloped at
the time this line was being planned. If folks are asserting that the
surrounding area is developed in a pedestrian unfriendly manner and doesn't
necessitate extensive pedestrian infrastructure, well, all that development
is being done in response to Metro. You should complain to planners.

Do you think that this is the way that area should develop
(pedestian undriendly, with station set back from the street in
the middle of a "superblock" connected to Morgan Boulevard -- named
after a road engineer -- by auto access road and a hundred-yard
footpath) because it is "suburban"?? Why the hell are they
surrounding it with Metro-unfriendly townhouse pod complexes on
territory that was COMPLETELY UNDEVELOPED south of the Redskins
stadium?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A10555-2004Dec18.html
"Metro Opens Blue Line Extension - Largo, Morgan Boulevard Stations
Debut in Prince George's County"
Associated Press - Saturday, December 18, 2004
'Metro trains traveled beyond the transit agency's original 103 mile
system Saturday with the opening of two new stations. The 3.1 mile Blue
Line extension, which adds stops at Morgan Boulevard and Largo Town
Center, is the first time the rail has reached beyond the Capital
Beltway in Prince George's County, Md.'
'The trains began running at 7 a.m., and Metro reported no delays or
overcrowding by late afternoon. The true test comes Monday, when around
9,000 commuters are expected to break-in the system's 85th and 86th
stations.'
'Nearly 3,000 parking spaces will be available at the stations. "This
is the best design of an extension we have done yet," said Metro
Assistant General Manager P. Takis Salpeas.'
'The new stations cost Metro $456 million and even include a child care
center at Morgan Boulevard.'
'Salpeas said they learned from years of previous construction and made
additions that will cut down on maintenance delays. Workers added more
track crossovers so that trains can more easily move around a breakdown
or failed track, and there is storage for rail cars.'
See the URL for the rest of the article.
I attended to opening ceremony at the Largo Station, and then rode on
the line and toured the new stations. I met John Cambron there, and we
checked it out.
The Addison Road station was the former Blue Line terminal in Prince
George's County, and the Addison Road line is mostly underground after
it branches from the New Carrolton Line just east of the Anacostia
River, and it contains the Benning Road station (subway), the Capitol
Heights station (subway) and the Addison Road station (surface).
"1980 - November 22: Benning Road, Capitol Heights and Addison Road
stations open, adding 3.5 miles to Blue Line".
http://www.wmata.com/about/history.pdf
The Addison Road station is unusual in that due to the local topography,
the almost flat profile of the line comes out of the subway tunnel at
the west edge of the station, the station itself is on the surface, and
at the east edge of the station the line goes onto a elevated bridge
structure. Prior to today's Largo Extension opening, the line east of
the Addison Road station was tail track which ended about 1/4 mile east
of the station, with the elevated bridge structure ending in the side of
a small hill.
Just east of the elevated bridge structure east of the Addison Road
station, the newly built line extension enters the side of a slight hill
and is subway for over a mile, and the Morgan Boulevard station is in
open cut with the line going in and out of subway tunnel at either end
of the station. The Morgan Boulevard station mezzanine is above the
platform. Parking lots at the station will hold about 300 cars.
There is a pathway a couple hundred yards long between the station and
Morgan Boulevard, and that is primarily for fans heading to and from
FedEx Field, where the Washington Redskins play (good work beating the
49ers 26-16 in S.F. today, guys!), and the walk on a broad sidewalk
along Morgan Boulevard is 3/4 mile to the stadium. That is a somewhat
long walk, but lots of fans will undoubtedly find it an ideal way to
access the stadium on game days.
East of the Morgan Boulevard station, heading east, the line is in
subway for over a mile, and then comes out of the side of a slight hill
and immediately becomes an elevated bridge structure as it passes over
the Capital Beltway (I-95/I-495) and then continues as elevated bridge
structure through the Largo Town Center station, and the station is on
elevated bridge structure also, although the mezzanine underneath is in
open cut.
The Largo Town Center station is the new Blue Line terminal in P.G.
County, and there are two huge parking garages there which will hold
over 1,000 cars each, and there are bays for feeder buses, and there are
lots of business areas and residential areas within easy walking
distance.
The line's tail track east of the Largo Town Center station goes into a
tunnel, and per John Cambron that tunnel widens to three tracks and goes
for almost 2,000 feet before it ends, and it will be used to store up to
four 8-car trains. There is a design provision for a future line
extension to the east of the Largo Town Center station.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com

[Keith F. Lynch]

If folks are asserting that the surrounding area is developed in
a pedestrian unfriendly manner and doesn't necessitate extensive
pedestrian infrastructure, well, all that development is being done
in response to Metro. You should complain to planners.

I for one don't ask for any special pedestrian amenities (other than
a sidewalk adjacent to each road, of course). But I'm baffled as
to why Metro spends money to deliberately make things *harder* for
pedestrians. I haven't been to either of the new Blue Line stations,
but I'm often at Greenbelt. If you attempt to walk directly from the
station entrance to Cherrywood lane through the gigantic parking lot,
you'll encounter two fences. One is low, and easily climbed over,
but the other is a tall chain link fence topped with barbed wire that
extends indefinitely in both directions.

What is the purpose of that fence? To keep cars from driving over the
grass to avoid paying for parking? Then why not provide a pedestrian-
sized gate in the fence? Or why not just use a lower and cheaper
fence, one that can easily be climbed over?

I would be glad to fix this problem myself if Metro gives me
permission to use boltcutters on the fence.

[John R Cambron]

Post by Keith F. Lynch

If folks are asserting that the surrounding area is developed in
a pedestrian unfriendly manner and doesn't necessitate extensive
pedestrian infrastructure, well, all that development is being done
in response to Metro. You should complain to planners.

I for one don't ask for any special pedestrian amenities (other than
a sidewalk adjacent to each road, of course). But I'm baffled as
to why Metro spends money to deliberately make things *harder* for
pedestrians. I haven't been to either of the new Blue Line stations,
but I'm often at Greenbelt. If you attempt to walk directly from the
station entrance to Cherrywood lane through the gigantic parking lot,
you'll encounter two fences. One is low, and easily climbed over,
but the other is a tall chain link fence topped with barbed wire that
extends indefinitely in both directions.

WMATA wants you to use the paved walk that runs along the access
road.

Post by Keith F. Lynch
What is the purpose of that fence? To keep cars from driving over the
grass to avoid paying for parking? Then why not provide a pedestrian-
sized gate in the fence? Or why not just use a lower and cheaper
fence, one that can easily be climbed over?

The fence it there to discourage the criminal minded among us to
engage in their criminal activity elsewhere.

[The Robinsons]

Post by John R Cambron

Post by Keith F. Lynch
What is the purpose of that fence? To keep cars from driving over the
grass to avoid paying for parking? Then why not provide a pedestrian-
sized gate in the fence? Or why not just use a lower and cheaper
fence, one that can easily be climbed over?

The fence it there to discourage the criminal minded among us to
engage in their criminal activity elsewhere.

When walking is a crime, all pedestrians will be considered
criminals. That is the case already in the suburbs, ironically
not yet true of the illegal CSX cut-through at Rhode island Ave.
which everybody uses despite the supposed danger.

--Brian R.

[Keith F. Lynch]

WMATA wants you to use the paved walk that runs along the access road.

I was speaking of getting to the (Greenbelt station) access road. The
shortest way is directly down the middle of the parking lot. You'll
end up with the road right in front of you, the parking lot right
behind you, but an immense chain link fence topped with barbed wire
in the way, extending indefinitely in both directions.

The fence it there to discourage the criminal minded among us to
engage in their criminal activity elsewhere.

How is that fence supposed to discourage criminal activity? It's not
like it completely enclosed the station. If it did, the station would
be completely useless.

[The Robinsons]

Post by Keith F. Lynch

WMATA wants you to use the paved walk that runs along the access road.

I was speaking of getting to the (Greenbelt station) access road. The
shortest way is directly down the middle of the parking lot. You'll
end up with the road right in front of you, the parking lot right
behind you, but an immense chain link fence topped with barbed wire
in the way, extending indefinitely in both directions.

The fence it there to discourage the criminal minded among us to
engage in their criminal activity elsewhere.

How is that fence supposed to discourage criminal activity? It's not
like it completely enclosed the station. If it did, the station would
be completely useless.

Since you plonked me, you won't see my reply where I essentially agreed
with you that DC especially the suburbs, regard pedestrians on foot as
criminally suspect individuals. Too bad since I am the only person on
this newsgroup who is likely to agree with you on this.

Folks who get to the stations by car are oblivious to this issue.

Those that DO care are generally have no understanding of the
design issues that feed into their vague intimations that the
outer stations are too "suburban" in appearance.

--BER

[John R Cambron]

Post by Keith F. Lynch

WMATA wants you to use the paved walk that runs along the access road.

I was speaking of getting to the (Greenbelt station) access road. The
shortest way is directly down the middle of the parking lot. You'll
end up with the road right in front of you, the parking lot right
behind you, but an immense chain link fence topped with barbed wire
in the way, extending indefinitely in both directions.

The fence it there to discourage the criminal minded among us to
engage in their criminal activity elsewhere.

How is that fence supposed to discourage criminal activity? It's not
like it completely enclosed the station. If it did, the station would
be completely useless.

The key word in my statment is "discourage".

[Keith F. Lynch]

Post by John R Cambron

Post by Keith F. Lynch
How is that fence supposed to discourage criminal activity? It's
not like it completely enclosed the station. If it did, the
station would be completely useless.

The key word in my statment is "discourage".

I'm not convinced it discourages crime to a greater extent than it
discourages legitimate ridership. It's always possible to discourage
both by making Metro less pleasant and usable for everyone.

[The Robinsons]

Post by Keith F. Lynch

If folks are asserting that the surrounding area is developed in
a pedestrian unfriendly manner and doesn't necessitate extensive
pedestrian infrastructure, well, all that development is being done
in response to Metro. You should complain to planners.

I for one don't ask for any special pedestrian amenities (other than
a sidewalk adjacent to each road, of course).

The new Morgan Boulevard station entrance is a parking lot wy back behind
the road for which the station is named. Check out the Washington Post
map. Without "special amenities" it would be totally impractical
to use the station on foot, because the only relationship it bears to the
neighborhood Main Street is a hundred-yard pedestrian trail from the
opposite end of the station back to Morgan Boulevard, plus an access
road for the cars. Totally pedestrian hostile design in the middle of
UNDEVELOPED LAND where the tracks pass under a BRAND NEW STREET that has
no cross intersections!!! And the surrounding area (again, greenfield
development with no major streets separating it from the metro line)
is being built up as garage townhouses on cul-de-sacs rather than on a grid.

Post by Keith F. Lynch
But I'm baffled as
to why Metro spends money to deliberately make things *harder* for
pedestrians. I haven't been to either of the new Blue Line stations,
but I'm often at Greenbelt. If you attempt to walk directly from the
station entrance to Cherrywood lane through the gigantic parking lot,
you'll encounter two fences. One is low, and easily climbed over,
but the other is a tall chain link fence topped with barbed wire that
extends indefinitely in both directions.
What is the purpose of that fence? To keep cars from driving over the
grass to avoid paying for parking? Then why not provide a pedestrian-
sized gate in the fence? Or why not just use a lower and cheaper
fence, one that can easily be climbed over?
I would be glad to fix this problem myself if Metro gives me
permission to use boltcutters on the fence.

Or check out the HIGHLY ENGINEERED pedestrian path to the Home Depot
shopping plaza at Rhode Island Ave where no direct pathway runs thru
the Metro parking lot and no sidewalk begins on the plaza side.

The UNPERMITTED CUT-THRU ACROSS THE CSX TRACKS AT GRADE is alot more
pedestrian friendly than this debacle. The layout at Morgan Boulevard
and, concievably, the streets surrounding Largo Metro (I have not yet
seen) appear to indicate Metro has learned nothing about pedestrian
design or transit-oriented suburban development in the past 20 years.

Then again, it could be the MD SHA which is notoriously pedestrian hostile.