Discussion:
DC Stadium Testimony: The Site Makes it a Boondoggle- Complicates proposed tunnel
(too old to reply)
Douglas A. Willinger
2004-10-31 21:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004

Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com


The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.

This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons

It locks in existing 130 foot right of way at South
Capital Street, which,

Blocks the South Capital Greenway/Mall proposed by
NCPC in 1997 to popular acclaim running from towards
the Capitol Building southward towards the Anacostia
River

Blocks even the two proposals for a narrower Greenway
that appear in the 2003 South Capital Gateway Study,
either for a symmetrical 100 foot median greenway
within a 220 foot row, or an asymmetrical 140 foot
linear park all to the east of South Capital- all
allegedly to save the houses along Carrollsburg Place
SW and the lower west side of South Capital Street
alongside the existing bridge approach.

Complicates replacement Bridge for South Capital
Street by denying space to east to construct approach
to new bridge, potentially forcing it on new alignment
to the west of South Capital Street through the
above-mentioned houses along the west side of the
existing South Capital Street Bridge approach.

Complicates proposed tunnel with stadium placed
directly atop, or by forcing tunnel alignment to share
right of way with surface South Capital Street

Placing stadium directly atop tunnel to east of South
Capital Street will require coordinating designs of
tunnel and stadium foundations. But with the tunnel
on a 15 year time frame and the stadium on a 3 year,
what guarantee that the stadium foundations will
accommodate tunnel at later date? Or will this issue
be deferred, along with cost increases to general
public of tens of millions of $ due to foundation
deficiencies and soil conditions? The Williams
administration and stadium backers have an abysmal
record in approving boondoggle real estate projects
that create conflicts and significant cost increases
to future transportation infrastructure projects, such
as the row of "Capital Square" townhouses alongside
the SW Freeway within site of USDOT and HUD, a several
million $ land sale resulting in perhaps a $50 million
increase in the cost of covering the SW Freeway to
make it a tunnel and reconnect SW, and the "Golden
Rule" apartment building at the northwest corner of K
Street and New Jersey Avenue blocking the unused I-395
tunnel on ramp, and creating a migratory pattern of
elderly pedestrians carrying groceries from the
"Golden Rule" market 1 1/2 blocks to the east, across
a New Jersey Avenue with greater amounts of traffic
resulting from the surface street to freeway on ramp
being blocked, and thus not counter the traffic from
freeway to surface street off ramp to south. With
such a track record, how can we accept the stadium
proposal without any accounting of the extra expenses
to constructing a replacement South Capital Bridge and
the new parallel tunnel connecting I-295 with I-395?

What about the security risk of placing stadium with
30,000+ spectators and a logical terrorist (assuming
that terrorists look to maximize the loss of life)
target, *directly atop* highway tunnel route? (Note
that the I-395 Center Leg/3rd Street Tunnel passes
some 3 blocks to the west of the U.S. Capitol
Building, rather then directly beneath.)

Or, what about the extra expense of constructing the
tunnel directly beneath South Capital Street AFTER it
is lined with buildings, hence depriving it the space
to stage construction less expensively and for
providing adjacent construction equipment storage?
Having to construct something on an existing road that
must have traffic maintained throughout construction
is always more expensive then having a separate right
of way where construction occurs unimpeded by linear
traffic. But where is any consideration of this by
backers of this ill conceived stadium site location?

Complicates and congests traffic flow for lacking
roadway interchange capacity, introducing yet another
security risk of further educing traffic flow blocking
key city exit

RFK an infinitely better site, let's redevelop area to
create mixed use with improved economic
competitiveness with tunneled extension from SE
Freeway Barney Circle compatible with Massachusetts
Avenue SE Bridge to better connect with east of
Anacostia.

If they are so intent on new stadium south of capital,
why the insistence on 3 year time table?

If they are to build a stadium in that general area,
shift it a few hundred feet east and north to provide
more space for bridge and tunnel construction, to
provide the space for making the bridge and tunnel
construction less complicated and less expensive, to
provide space for the greenway, and provide the space
to stage traffic routes from bridge to stadium without
causing a traffic clot.

Or perhaps shift it a few hundred feet west and south,
placing it directly upon the South Capital axis as
part of a new bridge project featuring a new traffic
circle combining that seen on the axis west and east
of the Capitol with the Lincoln Memorial and RFK,
providing that we can place this monumentally
important long term planning decision over some one's
idea that the thing must be built in 3 years.

Regardless of one's opinion about its economic
feasibility and its funding, this particularly stadium
site plan must be rejected, with a more feasible
solution being renovating RFK Stadium, building some
mixed use development, particularly atop areas of its
parking lots decked over, made more economically
competitive with a tunneled extension from the
Pennsylvania Avenue SE/Barney Circle underpass to East
Capital Street.

Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
Geoffrey William Hatchard
2004-11-01 00:50:17 UTC
Permalink
Douglas A. Willinger wrote...
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
Doug,

I saw you on DC cable channel 13. Wasn't really paying close attention
to the testimony until I heard a familiar name. Glad to see that you
were able to get something through. Carol Schwarz was particularly
interested in the tunnel issue. Congrats on your well-spoken testimony!
--
All the best,
Geoff
SP Cook
2004-11-01 11:42:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?

SP Cook
George Grapman
2004-11-01 15:36:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by SP Cook
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?
SP Cook
They may not make it to RFK. among the obstacles:

A lawsuit against baseball and the former owner, Jefferey Loria, by
his former partners is set to be heard the day before the vote on RFK.
Several council candidates are opposing the new ballpark deal.
The team does not have an owner and will not have one until there is
a stadium deal.
--
To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell
Allen Seth Dunn
2004-11-02 01:09:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by SP Cook
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?
They won't be playing at RFK. One of two things will likely occur: 1) They
will play at a new stadium built right next to RFK (a feasible option, but
not one Mayor Williams is interested in), or 2) If Dan Snyder shows an
interest in buying the team (is this possible?) or even if he doesn't, a
deal might be brokered to modify FedEx Field to support baseball.
Post by SP Cook
SP Cook
Oscar Voss
2004-11-03 15:09:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allen Seth Dunn
Post by SP Cook
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?
They won't be playing at RFK. One of two things will likely occur: 1) They
will play at a new stadium built right next to RFK (a feasible option, but
not one Mayor Williams is interested in), or 2) If Dan Snyder shows an
interest in buying the team (is this possible?) or even if he doesn't, a
deal might be brokered to modify FedEx Field to support baseball.
The second is not likely. There used to be a lot of stadiums used for both
baseball and football, but they didn't work well (due to the architectural
compromises needed to handle two very differently shaped fields), and the
consistent trend is now to build separate facilities for the two sports.
Such as in Baltimore, with new baseball and football stadiums built more or
less at the same time and location.
--
Oscar Voss - ***@erols.com - Arlington, Virginia

my Hot Springs and Highways pages: http://users.erols.com/ovoss/
John R Cambron
2004-11-03 16:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oscar Voss
Post by Allen Seth Dunn
Post by SP Cook
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?
They won't be playing at RFK. One of two things will likely occur: 1) They
will play at a new stadium built right next to RFK (a feasible option, but
not one Mayor Williams is interested in), or 2) If Dan Snyder shows an
interest in buying the team (is this possible?) or even if he doesn't, a
deal might be brokered to modify FedEx Field to support baseball.
The second is not likely. There used to be a lot of stadiums used for both
baseball and football, but they didn't work well (due to the architectural
compromises needed to handle two very differently shaped fields), and the
consistent trend is now to build separate facilities for the two sports.
Such as in Baltimore, with new baseball and football stadiums built more or
less at the same time and location.
I bet you don't know which city started this trend and when that
city did it. Hint, it started before many of the cities that built
their now obsolete multi use facilities.




































Kansas City
1972
--
John in the sand box of Marylands eastern shore.
Scott
2004-11-03 17:38:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allen Seth Dunn
Post by SP Cook
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?
They won't be playing at RFK. One of two things will likely occur: 1) They
will play at a new stadium built right next to RFK (a feasible option, but
not one Mayor Williams is interested in), or 2) If Dan Snyder shows an
interest in buying the team (is this possible?) or even if he doesn't, a
deal might be brokered to modify FedEx Field to support baseball.
Post by SP Cook
SP Cook
Could they play at FedEx field while RFK is torn down and a new
stadium built where RFK is? Why do they want to put a stadium near S.
Capitol?
John R Cambron
2004-11-06 06:49:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Post by Allen Seth Dunn
Post by SP Cook
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?
They won't be playing at RFK. One of two things will likely occur: 1) They
will play at a new stadium built right next to RFK (a feasible option, but
not one Mayor Williams is interested in), or 2) If Dan Snyder shows an
interest in buying the team (is this possible?) or even if he doesn't, a
deal might be brokered to modify FedEx Field to support baseball.
Post by SP Cook
SP Cook
Could they play at FedEx field while RFK is torn down and a new
stadium built where RFK is? Why do they want to put a stadium near S.
Capitol?
FedEx is a football only stadium. No more need be said.
--
John in the sand box of Marylands eastern shore.
Scott M. Kozel
2004-11-06 16:06:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by John R Cambron
Post by Scott
Could they play at FedEx field while RFK is torn down and a new
stadium built where RFK is? Why do they want to put a stadium near S.
Capitol?
FedEx is a football only stadium. No more need be said.
Combo major league baseball/football stadiums were built in the 1960s
and 1970s in some places, but they had to make design compromises for
each sport, and even though there are obvious construction cost savings
in having one stadium in a city instead of two, the practice over the
last 15 years or so has been to build a separate football stadium and a
baseball stadium, even though major league stadiums for those sports are
extremely expensive, on the order of about $400 million each to build
one today.
--
Scott M. Kozel Highway and Transportation History Websites
Virginia/Maryland/Washington, D.C. http://www.roadstothefuture.com
Philadelphia and Delaware Valley http://www.pennways.com
Scott
2004-11-07 00:54:29 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 01:49:57 -0500, John R Cambron
Post by John R Cambron
Post by Scott
Post by Allen Seth Dunn
Post by SP Cook
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?
They won't be playing at RFK. One of two things will likely occur: 1) They
will play at a new stadium built right next to RFK (a feasible option, but
not one Mayor Williams is interested in), or 2) If Dan Snyder shows an
interest in buying the team (is this possible?) or even if he doesn't, a
deal might be brokered to modify FedEx Field to support baseball.
Post by SP Cook
SP Cook
Could they play at FedEx field while RFK is torn down and a new
stadium built where RFK is? Why do they want to put a stadium near S.
Capitol?
FedEx is a football only stadium. No more need be said.
The other part of the question perhaps the main part, is unanswered.
John R Cambron
2004-11-07 17:18:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 01:49:57 -0500, John R Cambron
Post by John R Cambron
Post by Scott
Post by Allen Seth Dunn
Post by SP Cook
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?
They won't be playing at RFK. One of two things will likely occur: 1) They
will play at a new stadium built right next to RFK (a feasible option, but
not one Mayor Williams is interested in), or 2) If Dan Snyder shows an
interest in buying the team (is this possible?) or even if he doesn't, a
deal might be brokered to modify FedEx Field to support baseball.
Post by SP Cook
SP Cook
Could they play at FedEx field while RFK is torn down and a new
stadium built where RFK is? Why do they want to put a stadium near S.
Capitol?
FedEx is a football only stadium. No more need be said.
The other part of the question perhaps the main part, is unanswered.
The Mayor want to increase the value and revitalize the area around the
South Capitol Street site area, Much like Donald Shaffer did to the
inter harbor in Baltimore with the help of Rouse Development when was
the Mayor of Baltimore. Right now the area is an under developed light
industrial area that takes little advantage of the river.

In my opinion many of the people that live near the other proposed site
near RFK stadium are not likely to support a baseball only stadium at
that site.

There presently is a proposal being made by one of the members of the
DC council to build the baseball facility near RFK. From what some of
the talking head are saying if the facility near RFK passes in the DC
council and the South Capitol fails, Major League Baseball my either
drop Washington DC area from further consideration for the new location
on the Montreal Expos or award the club to the group that want to build
a baseball facility in Northern Virginia.
--
John in the sand box of Marylands eastern shore.
Scott
2004-11-08 23:26:11 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 12:18:47 -0500, John R Cambron
Post by John R Cambron
Post by Scott
On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 01:49:57 -0500, John R Cambron
Post by John R Cambron
Post by Scott
Post by Allen Seth Dunn
Post by SP Cook
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?
They won't be playing at RFK. One of two things will likely occur: 1) They
will play at a new stadium built right next to RFK (a feasible option, but
not one Mayor Williams is interested in), or 2) If Dan Snyder shows an
interest in buying the team (is this possible?) or even if he doesn't, a
deal might be brokered to modify FedEx Field to support baseball.
Post by SP Cook
SP Cook
Could they play at FedEx field while RFK is torn down and a new
stadium built where RFK is? Why do they want to put a stadium near S.
Capitol?
FedEx is a football only stadium. No more need be said.
The other part of the question perhaps the main part, is unanswered.
The Mayor want to increase the value and revitalize the area around the
South Capitol Street site area, Much like Donald Shaffer did to the
inter harbor in Baltimore with the help of Rouse Development when was
the Mayor of Baltimore. Right now the area is an under developed light
industrial area that takes little advantage of the river.
In my opinion many of the people that live near the other proposed site
near RFK stadium are not likely to support a baseball only stadium at
that site.
There presently is a proposal being made by one of the members of the
DC council to build the baseball facility near RFK. From what some of
the talking head are saying if the facility near RFK passes in the DC
council and the South Capitol fails, Major League Baseball my either
drop Washington DC area from further consideration for the new location
on the Montreal Expos or award the club to the group that want to build
a baseball facility in Northern Virginia.
If they build it then what will happen to RFK? Will it be torn down
or what?
Oscar Voss
2004-11-09 01:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
If they build it then what will happen to RFK? Will it be torn down
or what?
"Or what." Specifically, it will continue in use for pro soccer and other
events.
--
Oscar Voss - ***@erols.com - Arlington, Virginia

my Hot Springs and Highways pages: http://users.erols.com/ovoss/
The Robinsons
2004-12-10 04:18:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Post by Allen Seth Dunn
They won't be playing at RFK. One of two things will likely occur: 1) They
will play at a new stadium built right next to RFK (a feasible option, but
not one Mayor Williams is interested in), or 2) If Dan Snyder shows an
interest in buying the team (is this possible?) or even if he doesn't, a
deal might be brokered to modify FedEx Field to support baseball.
Could they play at FedEx field while RFK is torn down and a new
stadium built where RFK is? Why do they want to put a stadium near S.
Capitol?
RFK should not be torn down. It needs renovation.

A) It is a memorial stadium.

B) Its replacement would be a corporate named stadium -- an insult to RFK
akin to the renaming of (nee George Washington) National Airport.

C) It is no Vet. It is alot more fan-friendly (and fondly remembered)
than, say, FedEx field. What it needs is a single, dedicated use
that is suited to its size (i.e. BASEBALL) and extensive renovation.
This would cost far less than a new stadium, BTW.

D) The Expos WILL play at RFK next season, no matter what happens.

What happens AFTER next season is the only thing in dispute. RFK was
built for baseball as well as Football, has hosted numerous exhibition
games over the years and its size and layout are probably more suited
for baseball ANYHOW. Build a neighborhood around RFK (on the parking
lot) if you want economic development. Rebuild DC General as a more
compact facility using the billions of dollars of money saved in the process.

E) If MLB insists on a stadium with luxury boxes and inflated ticket prices
to pay for amenities for the rich, give them Banneker Park, and let them
build a memorial stadium to Benjamin Banneker with THEIR money,
a block from the waterfront, next to a major food market, surrounded by
hotels and facing the Jefferson Memorial.

If they say no to that, which they would not, well "tough luck".

F) No public money for memorials to corporations in the monumental axes
of the L'Enfant Plan. Is this to complex for suburbanites to understand?
Mark Wolven
2004-11-03 19:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allen Seth Dunn
Post by SP Cook
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?
They won't be playing at RFK. One of two things will likely occur: 1) They
will play at a new stadium built right next to RFK (a feasible option, but
not one Mayor Williams is interested in), or 2) If Dan Snyder shows an
interest in buying the team (is this possible?) or even if he doesn't, a
deal might be brokered to modify FedEx Field to support baseball.
Post by SP Cook
SP Cook
#1 - Well done Doug - I'm rooting for baseball in DC, but you make a
very well thought out and convincing argument against their current
site plan.

#2 - They definitely will not be playing in FEDEX - Angelos and the
Orioles thought that the Loudon County, VA site was too close - they
will not allow the team to move to FEDEX.

#3 - I feel that if they don't get the team in a good downtown site
and get some type of deal through the council, this team will either
not get to DC or not stay long. I don't think the RFK site meets their
long term goals...

I'd still prefer to see the team on the Virginia side, somewhere in
Arlington, near an existing developed Metro stop. I know it's a long
shot and Arlington and Fairfax have officially opposed this. But, if
William Collins ends up buying the team, and the DC Council kills the
current plan, Arlington could end up back on the table...
Oscar Voss
2004-11-04 01:01:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Wolven
Post by Allen Seth Dunn
Post by SP Cook
Post by Douglas A. Willinger
Baseball Stadium Site Boondoggle
Testimony to DC City Council
October 28, 2004
Douglas A. Willinger
Takoma Park Highway Design Studio
http://www.HighwaysAndCommunities.com
The DC City Council must reject the current stadium
proposal due to the stadium's specific location
between N and P Streets SE, 1st Street SE and South
Capital Street.
This location is unsatisfactory for numerous reasons
Anybody else got the feeling that the Senators, whatever, will still
be in RFK 10 years from now. Or in Portland?
They won't be playing at RFK. One of two things will likely occur: 1) They
will play at a new stadium built right next to RFK (a feasible option, but
not one Mayor Williams is interested in), or 2) If Dan Snyder shows an
interest in buying the team (is this possible?) or even if he doesn't, a
deal might be brokered to modify FedEx Field to support baseball.
Post by SP Cook
SP Cook
#1 - Well done Doug - I'm rooting for baseball in DC, but you make a
very well thought out and convincing argument against their current
site plan.
#2 - They definitely will not be playing in FEDEX - Angelos and the
Orioles thought that the Loudon County, VA site was too close - they
will not allow the team to move to FEDEX.
#3 - I feel that if they don't get the team in a good downtown site
and get some type of deal through the council, this team will either
not get to DC or not stay long. I don't think the RFK site meets their
long term goals...
I'd still prefer to see the team on the Virginia side, somewhere in
Arlington, near an existing developed Metro stop. I know it's a long
shot and Arlington and Fairfax have officially opposed this. But, if
William Collins ends up buying the team, and the DC Council kills the
current plan, Arlington could end up back on the table...
Dream on. The decision by the Arlington County board to pull out of
contention for the stadium is pretty popular here (personally, I think it
was the best thing the board's done so far this decade), and isn't likely to
change. In particular, the county board wasn't impressed by the economic
benefits of a baseball stadium; it would prefer less glamorous alternate
uses of the land that would generate more net tax revenue with less
aggravation.
--
Oscar Voss - ***@erols.com - Arlington, Virginia

my Hot Springs and Highways pages: http://users.erols.com/ovoss/
Mark Wolven
2004-11-12 20:21:03 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Dream on. The decision by the Arlington County board to pull out of
contention for the stadium is pretty popular here (personally, I think it
was the best thing the board's done so far this decade), and isn't likely to
change. In particular, the county board wasn't impressed by the economic
benefits of a baseball stadium; it would prefer less glamorous alternate
uses of the land that would generate more net tax revenue with less
aggravation.</snip>
You know, its kind of funny, when a city proposes putting in a
convention center, you never have that same level of opposition? Why
do citizens object to sports venues much more frequently and
vehemently?
Baxter
2004-11-13 01:06:29 UTC
Permalink
Depends on who's doing the paying. I know that here in Portland, the
Convention center was paid by business and hotel taxes and not from general
taxes. Sports stadiums, on the other hand, usually require more general
obligations.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Mark Wolven
<snip>
Dream on. The decision by the Arlington County board to pull out of
contention for the stadium is pretty popular here (personally, I think it
was the best thing the board's done so far this decade), and isn't likely to
change. In particular, the county board wasn't impressed by the economic
benefits of a baseball stadium; it would prefer less glamorous alternate
uses of the land that would generate more net tax revenue with less
aggravation.</snip>
You know, its kind of funny, when a city proposes putting in a
convention center, you never have that same level of opposition? Why
do citizens object to sports venues much more frequently and
vehemently?
George Grapman
2004-11-13 03:29:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baxter
Depends on who's doing the paying. I know that here in Portland, the
Convention center was paid by business and hotel taxes and not from general
taxes. Sports stadiums, on the other hand, usually require more general
obligations.
Another good point. In San Francisco it is financed by a hotel tax.
When guests complain the employees nod in sympathy with them over the
taxes but never tell them that the hotels supported the tax.
--
To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell
George Grapman
2004-11-13 03:28:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Wolven
<snip>
Dream on. The decision by the Arlington County board to pull out of
contention for the stadium is pretty popular here (personally, I think it
was the best thing the board's done so far this decade), and isn't likely to
change. In particular, the county board wasn't impressed by the economic
benefits of a baseball stadium; it would prefer less glamorous alternate
uses of the land that would generate more net tax revenue with less
aggravation.</snip>
You know, its kind of funny, when a city proposes putting in a
convention center, you never have that same level of opposition? Why
do citizens object to sports venues much more frequently and
vehemently?
Convention center tend to bring in people for several days year round.
These people stay at hotels, go to restaurants, ride cabs, etc. Most
fans go to the game and leave.
--
To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell
The Robinsons
2004-12-10 04:25:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oscar Voss
Dream on. The decision by the Arlington County board to pull out of
contention for the stadium is pretty popular here (personally, I think it
was the best thing the board's done so far this decade), and isn't likely to
change. In particular, the county board wasn't impressed by the economic
benefits of a baseball stadium; it would prefer less glamorous alternate
uses of the land that would generate more net tax revenue with less
aggravation.
You do realize however, that the combination of a baseball stadium megacity
in at the Loudoun/Fairfax line coupled with the ICC-oriented Konterra
megacity proposed in PG County coupled with the proposed new Pentagon
security requirements for private office buildings in Arlington (1/3 of the
office space in Arlington is rented to the Pentagon) will empty out the urban
core and necessitate the expansion of I-66, don't you? Banning high-intensity
uses from the urban core (baseball, industry, etc.) merely banishes them to
the periphery, precipitating federal subsidies for parasitic urban sprawl
that ultimately will kill Arlington's and DC's current economic cycle.
The faceless office buildings that are springing up in the urban core
will certainly not age gracefully thru the next recession.

Loading...