Discussion:
"Revive" Dulles Metro?
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Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
2004-02-02 04:58:31 UTC
Permalink
Note how the article below is studiously vague on whether this
means funding for either leg of the DC-area rail project is secure.

In fact the Washington Post is taking pains to keep us guessing on
this for as long as possible. "Revive" Dulles Metro? When did the
Post declare it dead? Musta been another piece of transit non-news.

As it happens, the article fails to point out that if the feds don't
recommend the ENTIRE project out to Dulles, not just the fully funded
portion, the local airports authority won't allow it to get built.
They control the Dulles highway median all the way to the WMATA Metro
Orange Line at West Falls Church.

The Post also failed to followup to tell us whether the Fairfax (VA)
county council voted to approve this multi-billion dollar self-taxing
district created by landowners in Tysons Corner -- a plan which
involves more self-taxing money than the entire cost of many of those
mickey-mouse light rail projects out West.

Why, you ask? Well it just so happens the Post believes we're spending
too much money on transit. According to the DC city paper's media critic,
the Post's leading staff reporter for transportation issues was recently
shit-canned for spending too much time reporting on "transit-related" issues.

Herndon city council echos the Post attitude in this article by saying that,
now that their landowners are in no danger of being taxed, they "have no dog
in this fight." After all, it's not like Herndon residents would benefit
from Metro even as far as Reston, right? Only riff-raff ride the train.

One last point -- it seems that nobody, up to and including longtime
posters on this newsgroup, seems to care if they actually live to see
Metro to Dulles. I guess it's a nice thing to merely think about;
what's another 5 years more or less?

Va. Landowners Offer Special Tax to Revive Metro Dulles Route

By Lisa Rein
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, January 22, 2004; Page B01

Backers of a Metrorail extension to Dulles International Airport
have developed a plan to pay for the first leg of the 23-mile
project, a month after the Herndon Town Council scuttled a plan
to help finance the full route.

A group representing 800 landowners in the Tysons Corner area submitted a
petition to Fairfax County yesterday to set up a special tax district for
commercial property owners, who would pay an added real estate tax to
extend Metro from West Falls Church to Wiehle Avenue in Reston.

"Rail is back on track," said Fairfax County Board of Supervisors
Chairman Gerald E. Connolly (D), who has met several times with major
property owners in the Dulles corridor. "We went back to the drawing
board. There emerged a sense of importance of resurrecting the
financing of the project."

The new plan for the Tysons district, scheduled to go before the county
board Monday, is designed to help Fairfax cover its $540 million share
of what ultimately could be a $4 billion rail project. But it remains
uncertain whether landowners along the western portion of the rail line
will come up with their own plan for a tax district. Those landowners
have not prepared a petition to fund their potential share.

Without a local financing plan, the long-sought rail extension cannot
move forward and would miss a deadline to seek federal funding this spring.

"We are moving ahead, with a positive signal to the [federal government]
that once this project is started, it will be finished," said Eric
Peterson, director of the Fairfax County landowners group known as
LEADER, or Landowners Economic Alliance for the Dulles Extension of Rail.
The group drafted the plan submitted to the Board of Supervisors
yesterday.

To form a tax district, a majority of property owners must support it.
The owners of 63 percent of the Tysons area property signed the petition,
Peterson said.

Herndon officials, representing the interests of property owners in
Reston and Herndon, rejected the original plan to create a single tax
district for the corridor. That would have provided Fairfax's share of
the funding for the entire 23-mile rail line out to the Dulles area.

The landowners feared that the project would tax them for new tracks
that might never reach much farther west than the Tysons area should
the federal government stop funding the extension.

The new plan is intended to address those concerns by having Tysons
landowners pay for the tracks that would reach them. The western
landowners could choose to create their own tax district, through which
they would contribute to the second phase of the rail line construction,
which planners estimate would get underway in 2010.

The western landowners would start to tax themselves earlier than that,
but under a new agreement between LEADER and county officials, those
landowners would get their money back if federal financing for the
second leg is not secured by 2006, according to Fairfax officials
who helped put the plan together.

Connolly said: "The western landowners have indicated a firm
commitment to proceed, on the heels of the first district."

Leaders of the Reston-Herndon property owners could not be reached yesterday.

Herndon Vice Mayor Carol A. Bruce said her council "doesn't have a dog
in the fight right now." But, she added, "LEADER is doing what they
should have done to begin with." © 2004 The Washington Post Company

Yeah, the nerve of those selfish bastards! Proposing to tax themselves
for the equivalent cost of an entire light rail line, when a minority
of property owners out in the exurban gloaming would prefer to get
a free ride! Good thing it's only an inessential rail line... --BER
Keith F. Lynch
2004-02-03 04:57:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
In fact the Washington Post is taking pains to keep us guessing on
this for as long as possible.
In much the same way as you like to keep us guessing as to which one
of the three of you wrote this article?
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
One last point -- it seems that nobody, up to and including longtime
posters on this newsgroup, seems to care if they actually live to
see Metro to Dulles.
I used to care, but now I no longer fly. Maybe I'll care again if
airlines resume treating their passengers as valued customers rather
than as criminal suspects.
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
I guess it's a nice thing to merely think about; what's another 5
years more or less?
Maybe I should repost my April Fools' article from a few years ago,
where I proposed swapping the locations of Dulles Airport and the City
of Falls Church, suggesting that while that would be fantastically
expensive, that it would be cheaper than some of the estimates I've
heard for extending Metro to Dulles.
--
Keith F. Lynch - ***@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail (spam) is not acceptable. Please do not send me
HTML, "rich text," or attachments, as all such email is discarded unread.
Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
2004-02-03 22:33:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith F. Lynch
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
In fact the Washington Post is taking pains to keep us guessing on
this for as long as possible.
In much the same way as you like to keep us guessing as to which one
of the three of you wrote this article?
?? Huh?
Post by Keith F. Lynch
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
One last point -- it seems that nobody, up to and including longtime
posters on this newsgroup, seems to care if they actually live to
see Metro to Dulles.
I used to care, but now I no longer fly. Maybe I'll care again if
airlines resume treating their passengers as valued customers rather
than as criminal suspects.
This has nothing to do with the fucking airport!
Post by Keith F. Lynch
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
I guess it's a nice thing to merely think about; what's another 5
years more or less?
Maybe I should repost my April Fools' article from a few years ago,
where I proposed swapping the locations of Dulles Airport and the City
of Falls Church, suggesting that while that would be fantastically
expensive, that it would be cheaper than some of the estimates I've
heard for extending Metro to Dulles.
Perhaps yu don't believe Dulles should be built until every OTHER
location in Fairfax is 2 miles from Metro...I don't have time for
this shit. People who don't rely on Metro of course shouldn't care.
Bill Bolton
2004-02-04 00:34:22 UTC
Permalink
Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
This has nothing to do with the fucking airport!
'"Foamers" is right'

Bill


Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia
Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
2004-02-05 23:03:42 UTC
Permalink
In reply to Kieth Lynch, wo regards Tysons Corner as a walkable
neighborhood and Reston as an area already served by rail-trail,
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
This has nothing to do with the fucking airport!
'"Foamers" is right'
If you lived in the DC area, perhaps you would understand how
idiodic the claim is that Dulles corridor Metro is primarily
about rail to Dulles airport.

It is like saying that the A train is primarily about serving
passengers arriving at Kennedy Airport, and need not have been
ever extended over the river otherwise.

It is the sort of statement that helps explain why there has been
so little interest in this project, ironically except for the
developers who are paying for it.

If rail to Dulles is abandoned it will mark the last gasp of
heavy rail expansion in the U.S. That includes any form of rail
in, say Seattle, which would likely also be abandoned based on
this precedent. That is why it matters.

Of course, light rail 'foamers' would cheer at the prospect of
no more haevy rail in the US, since they object to the notion of
100% grade separated projects WHEREVER they crop up. Lots more
money for slow, twisty trolley lines that pose no threat to road
demand and are inferior to the interurbans built 100 years ago.

There is a reason heavy rail OUTSIDE New York carries more
passengers than all US light rail systems combined. It is a
matter of capacity and throughput. You get what you pay for.
If Dulles rail were primarily about the airport, it would
make no sense as a project, which was the case for 40 years
that the right of way has been available. Now, however the
intervening areas along the Dulles Toll road contain more
office space than Miami. These offices are already centered
on the toll road, Route 7 and Chain Bridge Road which is the
exact alignment of the rail line in question.

--BER
Bill Bolton
2004-02-06 09:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
Post by Bill Bolton
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
This has nothing to do with the fucking airport!
'"Foamers" is right'
If you lived in the DC area, perhaps you would understand how
idiodic...
... people swear in newsgropus?

Bill


Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia
Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
2004-02-06 22:14:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Bolton
Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
Post by Bill Bolton
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
This has nothing to do with the fucking airport!
'"Foamers" is right'
If you lived in the DC area, perhaps you would understand how
idiodic...
... people swear in newsgropus?
Well, shet ma mouth! ;-p

--BER

Keith F. Lynch
2004-02-04 04:07:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
Post by Keith F. Lynch
In much the same way as you like to keep us guessing as to which one
of the three of you wrote this article?
?? Huh?
Your From: line says "Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill
Robinson". When one of you posts from this shared account, why
doesn't he or she edit out the two names that don't apply?
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
Post by Keith F. Lynch
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
One last point -- it seems that nobody, up to and including
longtime posters on this newsgroup, seems to care if they actually
live to see Metro to Dulles.
I used to care, but now I no longer fly. Maybe I'll care again if
airlines resume treating their passengers as valued customers
rather than as criminal suspects.
This has nothing to do with the ... airport!
What has nothing to do with the airport? Metro to Dulles? Or flying?
I think both have everything to do with the aiport.
Post by Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
Perhaps yu don't believe Dulles should be built until every OTHER
location in Fairfax is 2 miles from Metro...
I don't care what order Metro is built in, but yes, I think that every
point in Fairfax County and the rest of the DC area should eventually
be within two miles of a Metro station. I also think that no new
stations should be built within two miles of an existing station until
then -- not that that has any application to Dulles, which is nowhere
near any existing Metro station.
--
Keith F. Lynch - ***@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail (spam) is not acceptable. Please do not send me
HTML, "rich text," or attachments, as all such email is discarded unread.
David Lesher
2004-02-04 16:22:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Keith F. Lynch
Maybe I should repost my April Fools' article from a few years ago,
where I proposed swapping the locations of Dulles Airport and the City
of Falls Church, suggesting that while that would be fantastically
expensive, that it would be cheaper than some of the estimates I've
heard for extending Metro to Dulles.
No one liked my post-911 answer to the DCA threat issue.

a) Close DCA

b) Move NASM annex to DCA

c) Turn terminals into shopping mall; adding buildings at gates to
be stores.

d) Sell rest of land for luxury hi-rise residences, no height
restrictions and good Metro access.

e) Spend all the money left over from RE sales on Metro to Dulles
AND to BWI/or to meet Light Rail. Have express trackage as well as
local.

First problem: The Hill-Critters would lose their free parking.
End of story.
--
A host is a host from coast to ***@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Brian Robinson OR Carol Goter Robinson OR Bill Robinson
2004-02-05 23:07:58 UTC
Permalink
Heh... of course none of this is necessary since Dulles rail is
primarily about TOD in the DULLES corridor, esp. Tysons Corner,
which already exists. Said developers are already falling over
themselves to pay for it, to boot (the ones that aren't selfishly
trying to condition tax support on making the project even LARGER).

So it looks like Nat'l Arirport redevelopment, while intriguing
as a concept, could be used to finance something else. :-)
Post by David Lesher
Post by Keith F. Lynch
Maybe I should repost my April Fools' article from a few years ago,
where I proposed swapping the locations of Dulles Airport and the City
of Falls Church, suggesting that while that would be fantastically
expensive, that it would be cheaper than some of the estimates I've
heard for extending Metro to Dulles.
No one liked my post-911 answer to the DCA threat issue.
a) Close DCA
b) Move NASM annex to DCA
c) Turn terminals into shopping mall; adding buildings at gates to
be stores.
d) Sell rest of land for luxury hi-rise residences, no height
restrictions and good Metro access.
e) Spend all the money left over from RE sales on Metro to Dulles
AND to BWI/or to meet Light Rail. Have express trackage as well as
local.
First problem: The Hill-Critters would lose their free parking.
End of story.
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